Does Hunting Prepare You for a Gunfight?

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:07] Speaker B: Liberty and Equipped Podcast I'm Greg Davis, founder of NeoMag. This podcast is about living boldly, using liberty for good and staying equipped in mindset, skill set and gear for whatever comes your way. Today's episode is ad free, but it's made possible by NeoMag. We build innovative American made gear to help you stay better equipped. If you want to support the company and get great gear, head to theneomag.com or support us for free by subscribing, leaving a review you and sharing the podcast. You want to send us an email? We'd love to hear from you. Life liberty equipment mail.com how you guys doing? Good. [00:00:44] Speaker C: I was gonna say that's a pretty good entrance. We had no hiccups this time. [00:00:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:00:48] Speaker D: You didn't offer any free products. [00:00:50] Speaker B: No free products. [00:00:52] Speaker D: So so far so good. [00:00:54] Speaker B: I feel like it's been a while since we've. It's been a month since we've done one of these. Is that right? Yeah. Today. So today's episode we we call LLE Life Liberty Equip. This is kind of harkens back to first season of where we kind of talked about life, had a lib, had a topic to talk about, finishing up with some faith and fuel. So that's what kind of what we have in store for today. We're kind of throwing this together a little last minute. The for the today's topic. I think it'll be a good one, but I thought we'd kind of get caught up a little bit just what's going on in life. Life in the last really month. [00:01:30] Speaker D: Greg, you're up. [00:01:31] Speaker B: I'm up. All right. So my sporting clay competition season has started very abruptly. I got out this past Saturday, shot 200 bird competitions in one day and went better than what I think I expected. But I also came into it with no expectations. So it's hard to. [00:01:53] Speaker D: So you met expectations. [00:01:54] Speaker B: It's hard. I exceeded the expectations, which is. I had no expectations because I barely picked up my shotgun, I don't know, three times since like November. [00:02:04] Speaker D: Do you want to know why? Why? Because shotguns are the worst. [00:02:07] Speaker B: Nope. That is. That's awful. [00:02:10] Speaker A: And cold out. [00:02:10] Speaker D: Yeah, well, there's that too. [00:02:12] Speaker B: Well, there was there like, there's deer season. I went super hard into deer season and then like track season, which is kind of one of the other things I was talking about. Track is kind of wrapping up here. Liam has his last. He's running in the Mac meet. It's kind of the big all the schools Come for that. He's running in that Thursday. That'll be kind of the last one. So track season comes up, and that's just kind of craziness. We had a couple concerts. Nate and I were at the Luke Combs concert. Luke Combs concert. Was that last Saturday? Sure, Yeah, I think it was last night. Seems like a month ago. [00:02:47] Speaker D: I don't know. It seems like forever ago already, but [00:02:48] Speaker B: it was last Saturday, and I'm still recovering from that. My old body standing on a concrete stoop and sitting on bleachers for seven hours for forever. [00:03:01] Speaker A: Tough to get old, Greg. [00:03:02] Speaker B: Oh, it is, actually. Yeah. Literally. I went to PT this morning, and I think part of it is stemming from standing at that concert for a long time in cowboy boots and sitting on metal bleachers. But it was awesome concert. [00:03:20] Speaker D: Can we just talk about how Ohio State Stadium sucks? Major. [00:03:23] Speaker A: I knew that was coming. Stuff. [00:03:25] Speaker D: Yeah, listen, they're Roll Tide. [00:03:29] Speaker B: Wrong. Wrong. [00:03:30] Speaker D: We are school that we're complaining about. No, they've got. They bring in millions of dollars in. That stadium sucks. Like, it's all bleachers. Come on, guys. Let's upgrade for just chairs with backs. I'm not saying they can be plastic. [00:03:43] Speaker B: There were a couple sections. I had them. [00:03:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:45] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:03:45] Speaker D: The fancy booster section. [00:03:46] Speaker B: A couple sections. Like, there were maybe a couple hundred. [00:03:50] Speaker D: Oh, and then. Would you like to sit down in your section? Would you like to. Good luck finding your section if you're not familiar with that stadium. [00:03:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:58] Speaker D: And the ushers don't know where your [00:04:00] Speaker B: seats are because the ushers also know the stadium. Stupid. [00:04:03] Speaker D: Yeah, it's just dumb. [00:04:04] Speaker B: Half. Half the stadium, which we found this out because we went to the wrong side. You know, we're. Section. I don't know. It was 16. So I see the. I follow signs. The signs. One through, like, 17, seven through whatever. The numbers are getting higher. So I'm like, our number is higher than 7. So I went that direction. [00:04:24] Speaker D: Well, why wouldn't it be? [00:04:25] Speaker B: And as we're walking along, all I see are odd numbers. I'm like, oh, maybe the. Maybe they're just saying odd numbers, and the evens are in between. [00:04:32] Speaker D: Well, why wouldn't they be? [00:04:33] Speaker B: Right. That's how numbers work, right? [00:04:34] Speaker D: So when I count, typically. [00:04:36] Speaker B: That's how typically the odds and evens alternate. So we walk over to 15, and I'm like, hey, I'm looking for 16. And. And the guy kind of chuckles, and he points through the opening, across the field to the other side of the stadium is like, evens are on that side of the stadium. [00:04:52] Speaker D: Makes no sense. [00:04:53] Speaker B: Odds are on one half, evens are on the other. [00:04:55] Speaker A: Only in Ohio. [00:04:57] Speaker D: Well, and here's the thing. Like, the bleachers are supposed to have the numbers on them. All of them have been rubbed off by butts because they're bleachers. [00:05:06] Speaker A: Butts, too. [00:05:07] Speaker D: And one side is odds, one side is evens. But then they don't actually mark the section that you're standing in even very well. Like, you walk out your gate and you're like, well, is that. Is that 16 or is that 16? And you asked yesterday. They're like, good guess. [00:05:25] Speaker B: Yeah, because, like, the upper bowl. Like, the upper bowl is numbered different than the bottom. Because when you texted me what section you're in, I was like, technically, you should be right across from me. Basically, I was above you to your left. But then I'd start getting my phone and zoom way in. And as I'm going up, it changes the number from the lower bowl to the upper bowl. The numbers change. So it's not like, you know, 16, ABC going from bottom to top. No. As soon as you get to the upper bowl, it changes. The numbers change completely. [00:05:54] Speaker C: You know, they did that, right. For all the drunk college kids. Completely lost the entire game. [00:05:59] Speaker B: I don't know how anybody listen, how they would find their way out of there. [00:06:02] Speaker D: The only reason I'd ever go back to that stadium, since I don't sportsball and I think Ohio State is stupid, would be for, like, Luke Holmes again or some. Some major artist that I really want to see. He's the only way I'm stepping back into that stadium ever again. [00:06:18] Speaker B: There's a bit of me. So I was. I would say one of the first things I thought of when we got in the stadium is just how massive it is. That stadium is crazy. I mean, there's just. [00:06:28] Speaker D: For a college. [00:06:29] Speaker B: Yeah. Just rows upon rows. It's everywhere. And they actually. So it's called the. It's called the shoe. A horseshoe, because it used to be horseshoe. [00:06:35] Speaker D: Then they closed in the end. [00:06:36] Speaker B: Closed in the end and added I don't know how many more thousands of seats on that. So the stadium holds just shy of 100,000 or something like that. [00:06:42] Speaker D: Yeah. So Luke said this was his biggest concert ever, and he had 97,700. [00:06:46] Speaker B: That's what people standing on the infield. [00:06:47] Speaker D: Yeah, 97,000 people. [00:06:49] Speaker B: And I'd never been in a place that big and that loud. Like, the people actually overpowered on some of his big songs that have been out forever. Hurricane and stuff like that. People actually overpowered the sound system. It was so loud. When you have almost 100,000 people singing at the top of their lungs, it'll do it. It was. That was incredible. So part of me kind of wants to go to a game. Just this experience. That many people, you know. You know, just. [00:07:16] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:07:17] Speaker B: Going nuts for the. [00:07:17] Speaker D: I hate Buckeyes fans. [00:07:18] Speaker C: I hate them Alabama players. [00:07:20] Speaker A: You better watch out. Some of these OSU fans are going to come after you. [00:07:23] Speaker C: Yeah, that's fine. [00:07:24] Speaker D: Bring it. [00:07:24] Speaker B: You're going to lose us. We're packing like two listeners. [00:07:28] Speaker D: Oh, no. Sorry. [00:07:30] Speaker B: Hey, that's a significant amount of our listeners. [00:07:33] Speaker D: You know what? I don't want them here. [00:07:35] Speaker B: A lot of our listenership, so. [00:07:37] Speaker D: Ohio State Buckeyes. Boo. [00:07:39] Speaker B: But I said, I actually leave next week. My dad and I are going to New Jersey for the Northeast Regional for Sporting Clays. And I'm shooting like six events out [00:07:47] Speaker D: there, so just don't send. Set any expectations and you'll be great. [00:07:50] Speaker B: I'm going in with no expectations. [00:07:52] Speaker D: There you go. You'll be fine. [00:07:53] Speaker B: Lowered expectations. [00:07:54] Speaker C: So we need to go practice this weekend, right? [00:07:57] Speaker B: I would love to go practice. I've had many practices scheduled over the last few weeks and I've not been able to make one of my own scheduled practices. [00:08:05] Speaker C: See, the only way I can go out there is. Is with you as the members. So you need to drag me out there. [00:08:10] Speaker B: I would love to, but it doesn't seem to happen, so. Nate, what's going on with you? [00:08:18] Speaker C: You're looking. [00:08:19] Speaker D: My, my, My section's empty because I didn't have time to fill it out. [00:08:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. [00:08:24] Speaker C: Hey, I feel I know lots about [00:08:25] Speaker A: you if you want me to handle your section for you. [00:08:28] Speaker D: No. So like Greg said, we had Luke Combs concert a couple weeks ago. [00:08:33] Speaker B: We. [00:08:34] Speaker D: We were busy in Cleveland this past weekend celebrating some friends, birthdays and graduating from college. My son's baseball season has kind of started. And what I mean by that is he's had six practices and only actually had one because they've all been canceled or maybe two. So it started, but he's not done much baseball stuff. His first game I think is Saturday. So with two practices under his belt, he's got his first game, which is fine. I mean, it's just. I think it's still technically coach pitch, so it's fine. I don't even know if they're going to count points. His team level 7 under or 600 runs, not points. Yeah, sure, whatever. Sports ball. They didn't There was no outs, there was no runs. There was nothing like that. All the kids got to bat and all the kids got to field. So I'm not really sure how the rules will change for this age bracket because he aged up one. So we'll see how that all goes. But his first game is Saturday, so we'll see how that all turns out. But other than that, that's pretty much it. We're in May, wrapping up school for the kids and my wife, and it'll [00:09:47] Speaker B: be in the summer, still cold and rainy. [00:09:49] Speaker D: It snowed Saturday. [00:09:51] Speaker B: It did. [00:09:51] Speaker C: It snowed here. [00:09:55] Speaker D: We did a 42 ounce tomahawk steak. [00:09:57] Speaker B: It was wonderful. [00:09:58] Speaker C: That sounds amazing. [00:09:59] Speaker D: It's true. So that was almost made the snow worth it. Not quite, but, you know, May 2nd, snowing, Ohio. [00:10:07] Speaker B: That's about it. Good. [00:10:09] Speaker D: Pretty easy. [00:10:10] Speaker B: Ted, what's going on with you? [00:10:12] Speaker A: I went on vacation. [00:10:14] Speaker B: I'm sure you didn't come back. [00:10:16] Speaker D: You say that every year. [00:10:17] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:10:17] Speaker A: But every year it gets closer and closer to like, man, I could just sell coconuts here on the beach, and I think I could make this work. [00:10:25] Speaker D: I think I'd give you three weeks of that. [00:10:29] Speaker A: No, I wouldn't sell coconuts on the beach, but I could absolutely live there. If I could afford it, I could live there. [00:10:34] Speaker B: Could be a sandcastle consultant. [00:10:35] Speaker C: Yes. [00:10:38] Speaker A: I'll take it. I'll take it. We swam with turtles and we went to the British Virgin Islands and we jumped off boats, and it was lovely. It was wonderful. Like I said, the weather was perfect and it was good. My son and I also went to a Celtics game that was fantastic. The place was crazy because it was game seven in the playoffs. Unfortunately, they lost. The ending was not great, but the game was awesome. I was happy. Me and the boy got to. To go and do that. [00:11:06] Speaker D: That was his Christmas present, wasn't it? [00:11:09] Speaker A: No. So I did get him Celtics tickets for Christmas, and we went to that game in the beginning of March where they also lost that game. This was like a spur of the moment thing. Like the day of or the day before the game, I'm like, I'm gonna check how much tickets are just for fun. And they were a lot less than I expected. I got them for sub. $200. [00:11:31] Speaker D: Nice. [00:11:31] Speaker A: And anything. Yeah. Any Boston sports game. [00:11:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:36] Speaker A: Is insane. It's always well over 200. So for game seven, I'm like, yeah, sign me up, I'll do that. And it was also minus. They lost that part. [00:11:46] Speaker B: It was close, though. There's only a couple. [00:11:48] Speaker A: Yeah. It was right down to the end. It was. It was an awesome game. The place was crazy. I'm so happy we got to go. I just wish they won, of course, but not the end of the world. I did find out this weekend. I don't think I told you guys this, that our priest is being moved to another parish. Oh, yeah, we were big sad about that. As you guys know, we've had the same priest. We're very lucky. We've had the Same priest for 30 years in one form or another. At our church, which is not very common in the Catholic church. It's usually much less than that. So we got a good amount of time with him, but he's switching. We're getting somebody new. We don't know him. So that was pretty. Like, my wife was crying. Crying like. Like she lost a loved one crying. I'm like, well, let's. Let's. Let's meet the new priest before you're ready to switch churches and drive an hour and a half to the new church. She really wanted to drive an hour and a half to the new church where he's going to be. I'm like, no, we're not. We're not. We're not going down that road. [00:12:46] Speaker D: So he's. I mean, an hour and a half, that puts you almost out of Rhode Island. And I'm not even making a joke. Where's the. Where's the new parish? [00:12:53] Speaker A: He's actually still in Rhode Island. He's in. He's going to another town. It's just the way to get there. There's no easy way to get there. The easier way to get there, that bridge is falling apart, which is another story for another day. So we'd have to go the long way through Massachusetts to get there. And it's not quite an hour and a half, but it's definitely over an hour. [00:13:13] Speaker D: Is it the bridge I'm thinking of that you and I've talked about? [00:13:16] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. [00:13:17] Speaker A: It's a Washington bridge where they, like, they faked repaired it for 20 years. And all of a sudden someone noticed that, oh, this bridge is literally collapsing. We should do something about it. And like, they don't allow multiple tractor trailer trucks on the bridge at the same time. And it's just [00:13:33] Speaker C: going to happen. [00:13:34] Speaker A: Yeah. And this bridge is over salt water, too. So if anyone knows, like, corrosion y metal. Salt water. Not. Not friends. [00:13:44] Speaker D: So you mean you don't want to take your life into your own hands driving to church every week? [00:13:49] Speaker C: I don't. [00:13:49] Speaker A: I don't drive over that bridge. I refuse. I'll go the long way and double the the amount of time if I have to go to that area. But we never go there, so. [00:13:57] Speaker B: Little sketch. [00:13:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Besides that. Lot of yard work. Getting the pool ready. The pool went from like a dark green mud to a light green. Almost Caribbean. Almost Caribbean Blue green, kinda. It's getting there. [00:14:14] Speaker D: Has the boy jumped in yet? [00:14:15] Speaker A: No, it's. There's a lot of chemicals in it right now. I won't let him jump in because there's so much shock and chlorine and whatnot in there that I don't know, probably get a third eye or something. [00:14:28] Speaker D: There's worse things that could happen. [00:14:29] Speaker B: True. Or if a skin falls off. [00:14:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Thank the Lord for pool robots, by the way. That's. I don't know if we ever talked about that. That's the best thing I've ever bought in my life, hands down. [00:14:44] Speaker D: Well, it saved you a bunch of money on all that. All those chemicals you just dumped in there. [00:14:48] Speaker A: Yep. [00:14:49] Speaker B: So pool robot for the win. [00:14:50] Speaker A: Anyway. [00:14:51] Speaker B: Nice. [00:14:51] Speaker A: That's all I got. [00:14:53] Speaker B: Hey, Michael. [00:14:54] Speaker D: Michael actually put things on here. [00:14:55] Speaker A: Yeah, I did. [00:14:55] Speaker C: I got the text and I put it on there. [00:14:58] Speaker D: What does Michael say? [00:14:59] Speaker C: So let's just go into story time real quick. [00:15:03] Speaker D: Story time with Michael. So move the mic. [00:15:05] Speaker C: This weekend I had my zeroed in rifle pistol workshop, but we'll cover that briefly. The fun part was the traveling. The shenanigans that always ensue with my traveling and carrying guns. So American was my first choice, going there. And the only reason I chose American or Frontier was the flights were inexpensive, but they also left at a decent time. That got me there at a decent time without an eight hour layover and then getting there at 9 o' clock at night. [00:15:30] Speaker D: Talk to Tib about American before you book that. [00:15:31] Speaker C: So I hate American. I haven't flown American since I lived in Florida and outside. Unless you bought us American tickets for work, I won't fly American. It's Delta. Delta was $700 and I didn't get there until midnight, something like that. So I got my. [00:15:45] Speaker A: At least it was the Spirit, bro. [00:15:46] Speaker C: Yeah, I wish it was a Spirit because it was affordable and they still existed and it. Yeah. Anyways, I love the airline, so I hate what happened to Spirit because it's just a monopoly system. But so I get to the airport, I'm super early, I'm on time, I'm prepared. My rifle case is 63 pounds. She's like, that'll be $150, I'm like, no, it won't. So I proceeded in the airport to open up my rifle case with. I mean, it was immaculate. Just everything was organized. So nothing would move or ship and stuff. My bag full of gun equipment that could fly as a check on bag or carry on bag to the point that, like, we're trying to shed weight. Trying to shed weight. I get down to 54.5 pounds, and she's like, you get it down to 53, it's only $30 over. Or. Yeah, $30 something ridiculous, right? But I got it to 54.5. And like, we were like 10 minutes into this, and the couple behind me is an elderly couple, but he's just like, you see the size of that rifle? That thing is tiny. He's like, he's going to do some work. So, like, I'm turning around apologizing to them. They're like, don't apologize to us. Like, what are you doing? I'm like, I'm. I'm going to teach a class this weekend. So I got it down to £54. Had to pay the overweight charge. Fast forward to get to Texas. Got upgraded from my rental car to a Genesis, which was super awesome. But my rifle case wouldn't fit in the back seat. So, like, you know, you push the door shut, but it's not fully shut. So that was kind of funny. The whole weekend, my rifle case was longer than the car. The car had more buttons than I knew what to do with. And then every time you try to turn lanes, like, it would jerk you back. And I couldn't figure it out for the life of me. But it went fast. But I did the speed limit, actually, I went under the speed limit, apparently in Texas, because everybody flew by me. I got honked at a lot. So fast, I was like. So I didn't check out the insurance with this one, so I don't want to, you know, accidents. Class went great. Had a great time at the class. The students absolutely excelled. And then I went to a dueling piano bar. It was the first time going. I got invited by friends and I went and saw them. And that was hilarious because they forced you to interact with the crowd, to stand up on the tables, to do dances. So first, first things first. I'm doing, like, the chicken dance, you know, like, that was me getting called up to stand up at the group, but had enjoyed myself. In Texas, the weather was horrible. First day, it was raining, thunderstorming, the roads were flooding. But other than that, I had the Class indoor flying back was the nightmare. I could not sleep the night before. So I got to the airport at 1:45, 2:15. I've already returned the car. My flight didn't leave until 6am Geez. All right. So I could not sleep. And every hour on the hour I was waking up to the point, this is like, just go. Like. I think it was more or less a new place. First place tonight. And then knowing that I can't be late and wanted to make sure everything goes without a hiccup. Well, there were still hiccups. So at 2:15, I'm at the Frontier desk. And nobody showed up until 3:30. So at 3:30, they show up and they're like, yeah, your rifle case is 63 pounds. I was like, how? I was like, that's exactly how much it weighed when I got here. And I shed everything I could. And I even had less ammo coming back, and theirs was 40 pounds minimum. So they charged me $208. So it was more than the round trip for the flight for Frontier just for the weight. They didn't know what to do with my rifle case. Wheeled me up to go straight through tsa. And I was like, this isn't. This isn't how this works. TSA didn't know what to do because the terminal that took firearms and checked them was closed because of the government shutdown. So they gave. I still had my rifle case after it was checked in, which I should not have it at that point. So I wheeled it back to the front and I waited for like 30, 35 minutes. And I was like, I'm gonna miss my flight. Like, I've got to get through security. Great. Grateful that Texas security was quick and easy to get through. But nobody gave me a thumbs up or anything like that from 1:00am until 3:00', clock, either at the airport or in the plane or sitting. So we got to Atlanta, we sat on the tarmac for an hour and a half because other plane was sitting in our gate. And then I got in, I got to my other flight and I was the last person to board the plane. I didn't have a boarding pass, nothing. And she said, are you Michael? And I was like, yes, ma'. Am. She's like, what's your last name? I told her my last name, and she's like, we've been waiting on you. I'm like, well, I'm glad you have, because I had no other choice but to sit on the plane. Right? Yeah. So I got on the plane, we flew home, and the last shenanigans with Frontier was nobody was at the bottom to collect all your items. To bring the rifles out to a Frontier manager office. It said be back at 1:30. So I'm waiting, waiting, waiting. 30 minutes go by. I went to the top half, got ahold of a manager and I'm like, you know, I have air tags. Thanks to you, I have air tags and everything now. But I could not. They're like, we can't allocate it. And I'm like, oh, it's here. Like it's here. But I didn't know which air tag was which. Cause I had three of them to. They're labeled, but they actually are labeled correctly. So thankfully that was good. Walked down in my rifle case with four rifles in it or rifle and four pistols and an NFA item and ammo mags loaded. Was sitting on the conveyor belt. Nobody around, nothing to check it in, nothing. And I'm like, hey. Like I looked, I started recording it. I was like, this gets you in trouble. And tsa, like if somebody stole that, took it open, loaded, like there could have been a really bad situation here. Well then the case was broken. So at lunch I opened up my case. They did, they pushed the pins through the back of my case. Instead of opening my locks, they pushed the pins through the back of my case to get into my case. But there's no sign of TSA inspected or anything like that. But you can clearly see it from the rods being completely out of the case itself. So that was, that was a long 13 hour day of traveling. Outside of that it was, it was worth it, minus the traveling. I've got to get caught up. Like Tip says on lawn work, my yard looks horrible from the rain. I cut it Thursday before I left. Four days and it grows sporadically. So I have majors coming up next month. My shooting has really started to dial in. I texted you, I think Thursday or Friday night, like oh my gosh, after all these years, I just changed my grip. Like I spent a lot of time really trying to assess it, put it behind camera, see what I'm doing wrong and see just from shooting a lot. And I did went to the class and it actually I showcased that performance and ability just by something that I was able to dial in a little bit more myself. So I am excited. Next month I'm going to D.C. for the 2A anniversary and the United States birthday. I believe it's the United States birthday. [00:22:03] Speaker D: 250, 200, 250th, 50th so I'm going [00:22:07] Speaker C: to D.C. to the Met Gala event for that. So I'm super excited to be a part of that. And then I have a major to shoot, so. First major of the year outside of Florida, which was complete distraction. My mindset wasn't in the game. [00:22:21] Speaker B: Flying to D.C. with guns. [00:22:23] Speaker C: I am not going. I am driving to dc. [00:22:25] Speaker B: Not recommend that. [00:22:26] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm driving to dc but even right now, with all the laws that they have going on, I'm not. [00:22:30] Speaker B: I don't think you can. [00:22:32] Speaker C: Yeah. As an outsider, I don't. I don't know. That's. It's because I teach in D.C. and I have classes there, but they don't even know if. [00:22:39] Speaker B: I think if you didn't have ammo and you had your guns taken apart [00:22:42] Speaker D: and in different parts of your vehicle, like hidden in the tire and, you know, in the. The engine compartment. [00:22:48] Speaker A: It's the. It's the driving through. If you're driving through and it's unloaded and locked up, sure, no problem. If you're staying in D.C. like Michael's doing, then, no, you can't. You're not supposed to. And you're not supposed to bring guns. [00:22:59] Speaker C: That's crazy. I. I really think that's a little overreach and tyrannical approach there. [00:23:02] Speaker D: But it's been that way, unfortunately, actually, for a while. [00:23:05] Speaker C: Yeah, the laws there are changing. So that's. That's what I have going on this week is just kind of getting caught back up around the house, getting the yard mode and then have some contracts to take care of. And we've got some work to do around here, so. [00:23:17] Speaker D: Yeah, I got nothing to do. I don't know what you guys are talking about. [00:23:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I tried to mow on Sunday. My mower sunk as soon as I got into the yard. I just. Still getting more rain. So I'm hoping by June I can mow again. [00:23:29] Speaker A: No. [00:23:30] Speaker D: Maybe July. [00:23:32] Speaker C: Can I buy. Can I borrow your mower so I don't have to push mow everything. [00:23:35] Speaker B: It's. It's stuck in my yard. You can go push it out. Very good. [00:23:40] Speaker D: Very good. [00:23:41] Speaker B: We're all caught up. Let's get to our. Our life, Our. Our Liberty segment. You want to play that sounder? We haven't used these in a while. [00:23:50] Speaker C: We haven't had Home Depot in a while. [00:23:54] Speaker A: Liberty isn't about what we can get away with. It's about how we use our freedom to serve. Let's explore what that looks like today. [00:24:03] Speaker B: All right, so I thought of this this, this topic. Literally just, just a few hours ago I was listening to a podcast and I've been listening to a lot of like, like hunting podcasts and archery and, and, and all this stuff. And a theme that I've heard on a lot of these podcasts is, is as we talk we as like, as hunters and stuff like that, we talk a lot about hunting humanely, ethically. Like that is one of the, the biggest conversations in, in the hunting sphere is hunter sphere, huntosphere. And it kind of sprung this question of because I was also trying to think of what we're going to talk about today on the podcast. And we are more self defense geared business and everything. And I've talked about this before. [00:25:01] Speaker D: So [00:25:04] Speaker B: here's a question. I was kind of giving a little background on where this came from. So to what extent does hunting experience actually prepare someone for a real world self defense encounter? And then we got to talk about, you know, where does it fall short. But just this thought of, you know, for those, for those of us who are hunters. So the three of us, Michael, me and Nate, we are hunters. Tib, you've never been hunting before, right? [00:25:30] Speaker A: Not animals, just people. I've never been hunting, no. [00:25:35] Speaker B: Yeah, so, so we do have some different, some different experiences here on both sides of this. And I kind of just wanted to pull this thought in of does being a hunter give us a edge or advantage in self defense world? I'm just going to kind of open up there. I have some prompts and stuff here, but just kind of want to open up there, just kind of see where the conversation goes. You know, for those of us that are hunters, you know, for you guys, what do you guys think? And, and Tibet, have you ever thought about this? Has this ever come across to you before? Have you want to start tip have you ever thought about this before? [00:26:16] Speaker C: Sure. [00:26:17] Speaker A: No, I've never thought about it before. When you asked the question earlier, I assume that some of the techniques and some of the things, skills that you learn hunting will definitely carry over to self defense. I have no idea how much like you said, I've never been hunting. I'd love to go hunting. If somebody wants to take me, that's cool. But yeah, growing up in the city, we never hunted at all. We never did that. At the same time, I think those skills obviously can be taught and learned other ways as well. So whatever skills that someone could learn hunting that would help him in a self defense scenario, I'm sure if you did like a force on force training or sims or whatever Something like that, you could gain similar skills and probably even more. But I'm looking forward to hearing what you guys have to say. [00:27:13] Speaker D: I mean, stalking definitely helpful for self defense. No, I mean the, the things that I think that are applicable is dealing with the stress of a situation. You know, hunting is great, very relaxing, lovely to be out, you know, in nature and enjoying all of that. But then actually a buddy had asked me after my hunting this last season, he's like, I'd love to go hunting. Was it. What's it like? I said, it's peaceful. Punctuated by excitement and stress, followed by more peace. Right? Like, meaning you sit there, you watch, you enjoy watching the animals doing all this other stuff, birds and all of that. And then eventually, hopefully some people. It doesn't always happen, but hopefully, then your quarry comes into, into view and that's the moment I say there's excitement and stress. Like, oh, okay, I've got to, I've got the thing that I'm sitting here for. It's coming into view, so I got to take a second, calm down, make sure I've got a good shot, that they're in the right spot, put the shot placement right. Okay, I'm actually going to take the shot. You know, all of the things, all the factors you have to put into it, at least in Pennsylvania, there's an added stress from a perspective. If you're going to shoot a buck, you have to have certain amount of points and all of that other stuff. So you have to do a lot of identification before you can actually even take a shot. Which I don't mean stress isn't like huge stress, but adrenaline's rushing, you're excited. There's, there's, there's just stuff to it. And then you take the shot. And if you did your work well, animals going down, not necessarily right in that spot, but you can reasonably assume that the animal is hitting the ground. And after that it goes kind of back to peaceful. It's like, okay, I did my job. Animals down. Eventually I got to go down there and, you know, field dress and everything, but cool. Now we can go back to peace. And I think that particular section in the middle is the part that hunting would help is being able to manage your way through a stressful, exciting, maybe not in a happy exciting, but exciting scenario and be able to just force yourself through it on the other side. That, to me is the most applicable part. I know maybe we can talk about taking a life or whatever, but I don't know that that part of it you prep yourself for. [00:29:28] Speaker B: So to me, that's a big part of the. Part of this conversation. [00:29:32] Speaker D: I mean, I want to take an ethical shot and all of those other things. I don't know that, at least for me, there's a big difference between a deer and a person. But the adrenaline and excitement, all of that stuff I think would all be very similar. Again, excitement, quote, unquote, self defense is an exciting, like, ooh, I'm excited about it. But excitement being. There's adrenaline and energy and stress induced in that scenario. And I think that's what hunting for those of us that haven't been in a self defense scenario would be helpful towards. Yeah, for me, maybe. [00:30:07] Speaker B: Michael, what's your kind of initial thoughts? [00:30:09] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, Nate kind of highlighted several of the key factors that I'm going to bring up to you. But like he said kind of jokingly with stalking, there's a lot of applications that hunting can teach you to hunt other beings or other men or, or anything like that. I don't think it's necessarily in the situation of self defense. It might be primarily for military guys, Leo guys, guys that are doing reconnaissance, guys that are actually out in, in the sticks or in the heart of it. But he did say something that brought up a good point. He's like, you positively identify your target. Like you know what you're aiming at, you know what you're shooting at, you know what you're looking for. And in a self defense situation, the same application applies. I need to visually confirm what I am doing and justify the reason behind it. So in a sense of hunting, we're justifying, I'm putting meat on the table, food for my family. In a self defense situation, we're justifying, I'm stopping a life to prevent a life, or I'm taking a life to stop another life from being taken and prevent my own from being taken. So I do think there's applications where situational awareness, you know, when I'm in the woods, I love what you said, Nate. It's so peaceful. Like, I don't. When I was younger, I was like, man, I want to go kill a deer, kill a deer, kill a deer. But then it was like, man, I just enjoy the time. I just enjoy nature. I enjoy the sound. I can disconnect for a little bit. Although I got little snacks with me. You know, the excitement behind it. Yeah, there's definitely adrenaline, I can tell you. Buck fever hit me so many times and hit me so hard. As a kid, I didn't know what to do other than pull the trigger bolt as fast as I could pull another one. You know, if you send more that. That's more effective than the one accurate place shot. So I just get sometimes. Right. [00:31:38] Speaker A: Do you say buck fever? [00:31:40] Speaker C: Yes. Have you never heard. I like it. [00:31:42] Speaker A: Never heard that before. [00:31:43] Speaker C: Okay. Yeah, I definitely got buck fever. I saw a big one coming through the woods. [00:31:45] Speaker A: I'd call. [00:31:46] Speaker C: I called my daughter, like, panicking, like, there's a big one right there. And he's like, get off the phone and shoot it. Like, oh, okay. [00:31:51] Speaker B: You can. You can hear your heartbeat. [00:31:54] Speaker C: Yes, yes. [00:31:54] Speaker B: It's so loud. You can hear your heartbeat thumping. When you see. Yeah, when you see it coming, I definitely think there's. [00:32:01] Speaker C: There's applications where. Where hunting can help benefit you even from a safety application. Like, we keep the gun safe, loaded, and we're carrying it with us, or we're sitting in a stand, the muzzle's in the right direction. You know, we're not aiming just to aim blindly. Although I will happily say I look through my script to scan the woods like I'm in a safe environment, that I know if I'm sitting around downrange, it's. It's an area that's conducive to do. So. Where does it fall short? I have never taken a human life, Right. And I pray I never have to. I have taken many game in my time from all walks of hunting and aspects. I don't think taking an animal's life equates to taking a human life. I've had instances in my lifetime as a civilian working armed security or working in bars where I've had to draw my gun on somebody. And that adrenaline dump is completely different from however many times I pulled the trigger on a squirrel, deer, turkey, rabbit, whatever. I don't know that it necessarily prepares you, but I think you get that feeling. I think you do get to experience, like you said, the excitement or the adrenaline and the hormones that kick in. It's definitely there. I think where it does fall short is I can pull a trigger on an animal a lot faster than I could pull a trigger on a person. Now if you put me in a life or death situation that I was forced to use my skill set and knowledge and ability to protect myself or my loved ones. It wouldn't matter how fast I pulled the trigger. I would get the job done. Right? But at the end of the day, after that situation passed and that adrenaline dumped, I'm. I'm not going to forget that. I can't tell you how many animal I've taken in this time that I, I don't remember. [00:33:33] Speaker A: Right. [00:33:34] Speaker C: So that's where I think there's, there's a little bit of follow up. There's a lot of applications to hunting that can be applied if you know, zombies, post apocalyptic world that we're like, yeah, I know how to stalk, I know how to track my prey, I know how to climb a deer stand and everything like that. So yeah, this is a very interesting topic. I was kind of excited when you sent that. [00:33:52] Speaker B: Yeah. So I think there's a couple of things here that I kind of start with and one is. So I've, over the years I've had people tell me that they don't think that there's any way that they could hunt, you know, like, you know, kill an animal, take a life of an animal. Just like I've had people that said they couldn't take the life of a human being in a self defense scenario. So there's this, I think in both cases there is, there is a mindset, there's this, there is, there is decision that you have made, there's some soul searching and I'm just mostly going to speak for myself. Like I've had to do some soul searching before even I could pull the trigger on an animal. Like am I willing to take the life of, of a living thing? And I think for us hunters, we realize the, the importance of, of hunting and keeping, what is it, you know, keeping numbers at a safe number of animals. Yes. [00:34:57] Speaker D: Conservation. [00:34:57] Speaker B: Yes. That's where I was trying to go of conservation. Like that is all hunters, good, good hunters at the heart are, are conservationalists. That is again kind of going back to what I started with talking about. Like a lot of what hunters will talk about is doing this ethically. So I think in both, in both cases there's, there's a mindset that, that you have to have being willing to take a life, whether it's a duck or it's a human, there's a mindset that you have to go into and I think for somebody who hasn't hunted and I would love to hear any pushback on this, I would think for somebody who has not hunted to make that decision and has experienced and gone through that before pulling the trigger and killing something, even if it's a woodland animal, if they haven't done that, then how confidently can you make that decision for a self defense human being? Like, I don't know, like I, I, I don't want to make any kind, I'M not, I am not making any blanket comments that like, if you don't hunt, that you couldn't take a life in a self defense scenario. But is there, like, it's kind of going back to the, to the question is, is there a, is there a advantage just to someone who has hunted and made that decision and followed through with it for that person versus somebody who has never done that and just had, has made a decision to carry into train and be willing to take a life? [00:36:30] Speaker A: I kind of think it depends on the person. I think that's a case by case and the person's mindset and how they're made and how they're built. You know, like Michael said, I've never taken a human life. I hope I never have to. But if I'm in that situation where it's, you know, to, to defend somebody else's life, I can't imagine me hesitating. You know, like, we've all thought about it. If you're church or the ball or. Yeah. Whatever the scenario may be, someone breaks in the house, I don't want to take a life. But if it means me going home or protecting my family, there's, there's no hesitation. I'd rather be walked away than handcuffs and then in a body bag. [00:37:12] Speaker D: Right. [00:37:13] Speaker B: I mean, I, I think we all, anybody who, who carries. I would pretty confidently say we have spent significant amount of time playing through scenarios in our heads. Right. Oh, of somebody walking through that door, somebody coming through that window in a movie theater, somebody coming in back here versus there. Like, where am I going? You know, being a church, which, which door am I going at? [00:37:35] Speaker A: Right. [00:37:35] Speaker B: Like we, we when we go out [00:37:37] Speaker D: to eat, you know. [00:37:38] Speaker B: Oh yeah, I go out to eat. I mean it is, it is something that I would say we probably think about probably way more than what we even really think we think about it. Sure. [00:37:47] Speaker C: It becomes second nature. [00:37:48] Speaker B: Yeah. It's just where am I sitting and what direction am I looking? You know, I think all of us always try to face the door in a restaurant. Like the four of us fight for [00:37:58] Speaker C: the, fight for the seat, fight for [00:38:00] Speaker B: those seats, we're looking in the right direction or some of those things. Like, hey, I'm not caring. You are. You get the door, I'll get, you know. Yeah. So got the prince for us. Yeah. Like there is a mindset that, that goes with it. And I just, I can't help but think that having experience, following through on pulling the trigger and taking a life again, maybe it's just a goose Or a deer or whatever. I mean, I'll say so. I, I killed my first deer this year. I've killed, I can't even count how many ducks, geese stuff I've taken over. That's, that's kind of been my, my primary hunting and I could tell stories of, of goose hunting and, and my dog brings back a goose that's been wounded and now I have to finish with my hands. I hate looking into those beady little eyes as much as I hate geese looking in those beady little eyes and finishing a bird with my hands. I'd never enjoyed. I definitely don't enjoy. I think I'd be psychotic if I enjoyed it. Like, I don't know if you guys have ever had to finish off a animal with your hands. I know we have with guns, but like, you know, to this year, when I started deer hunting hard, the first few times I, I had a deer come up to my, my stand, bro, I was shaking like my adrenaline and my, and everything. Like, I don't think I could have got a shot off because, you know, because I was, I was shaking so hard. But as I hunted, more and more deer came up. The less that happened, I mean it still happens, but the more controlled I was because I had more experience with it. I think that's kind of another direction I want to kind of throw out there. As you get more experience, that adrenaline dump either becomes less or you learn how to deal with it more. [00:39:53] Speaker A: But do you. [00:39:54] Speaker B: I don't know what you guys thoughts on that. [00:39:55] Speaker D: Well, I mean that's, that was my point when I was talking about the excitement. Yeah, that's the thing that I think to me is applicable from hunting to a self defense scenario. If I'm being honest, I never had any moral conundrum over hunting. Right. Yeah, there was never any, like, well, you know, I don't know if I should shoot this thing. I never had to make a decision. My making the decision was buying the license, putting the gun on my shoulder and walking out into the woods. That made the decision. I never had the, the extent of my moral conundrum when it came to the deer is which one? Yeah, right. Like if it's, if there's multiple, it's like, well which one am I deciding? And that's not a moral decision. It's just which one's biggest or which one looks right, like the best target or whatever. I, I've never had this scenario where I'm like, I don't know if I'm gonna do well. I paid the money. I walked out here. [00:40:47] Speaker B: I sat. [00:40:48] Speaker D: Honestly, I've sit. I've sat through some really crappy conditions where it's like, I've been sitting in the rain all day. I'm gonna shoot whatever shows up. [00:40:54] Speaker B: Yep. [00:40:55] Speaker A: So [00:40:58] Speaker D: for me, I've never had any of this moral thought behind it. Whereas engaging a human is much different, in my opinion. They're sentient. Sentient and have independent thoughts and a whole life. And I don't know what, you know, their kids situations are, all the other stuff. There's a lot of things that goes into that. Yeah. I mean, you can apply some of that to animals, but the reality is, if I don't kill that deer, there's a good chance that a car will kill that deer. Or in Pennsylvania, the bears or the mountain lions or, you know, those kind of things will do it too, so. [00:41:36] Speaker C: Or the deer kills somebody in a car accident. [00:41:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:41:38] Speaker D: I mean, there's a lot of things with it. So I. For me, yes, absolutely. I think the adrenaline dump is. That's what I was talking about. Like, that's the excitement. That's the working through the decision, where am I taking the shot and doing that. And absolutely, you get desensitized to that over time. I mean, my first buck, I actually don't remember having any issues leading up to shooting the buck. Like, buck came up, I lined up, I took my shot, it dropped. And that's when everything. I was like, oh, wow, you know, shaking, and all the other stuff leading up to it, I was fine. There was no crazy heartbeat, nothing like that. Or maybe there was. I just wasn't paying attention to it. I was too excited about having my. My first buck. But over time, all of that has lessened. Like, I don't sit there and shake anymore, you know? Yeah. I sit down, I take a breath. Usually, like, whew. Okay, cool. We did the thing. All right, gather my stuff up, wait a little bit, go down and field dress it. And honestly, I'm more nervous about field dressing than I am about shooting at this point. But, yeah, so there's some desensitizing to that adrenaline and to that excitement, and that's what I think is applicable because, again, you're forcing yourself through, again, exciting for different reasons, but you're forcing yourself through a situation and making decisions and following through on those decisions in that moment where if you've never done anything that drives adrenaline and you've never had to force yourself through that, it'll be more difficult. But, yeah, I never had any of the moral Conundrum. I mean, I've only killed animals with a gun. I've done some very close up and personal, but that's all I've ever done. And almost all of them. The decision was made. It was not. Yeah, Yeah. [00:43:22] Speaker B: I think if you've stepped into the woods, you've made the decision that I'm. Yeah, I'm gonna do this. [00:43:27] Speaker C: I guess, like, the. There's no moral conundrum. I guess I would say it kind of leads into the next segment potentially. Maybe I'm jumping the gun a little bit, but the. The humane part of it. If I saw a female doe and a fawn, I'm not gonna take her. [00:43:37] Speaker D: Sure. [00:43:38] Speaker A: Right. [00:43:38] Speaker C: Like, oh, yeah, that fawn needs to grow up. That can be more meat for the next harvest, you know? But also, it's a small animal desensitizing or desensit. Sensitization. It's a tongue twister. [00:43:51] Speaker B: It's in there somewhere. [00:43:52] Speaker C: I would have to agree with Nate. Like, over time, like, I can go sit in the woods and like, oh, there's an eight point. All right. Like, do I want him or do I not want him? I would say the adrenaline is still there, but I'm kind of an adrenaline junkie. So, like, even when I go skydive, I've jumped 60 times now. I still get that. That rush of excitement. And then it's like, when it's done, it's like, oh, man. Like, I'm hot and sweaty and everything else. I still would say if I were to go hunting, and I'm going to hunt this year, if I see a buck come out. I haven't shot a buck in a couple of years. [00:44:24] Speaker D: Heck, yeah. [00:44:25] Speaker C: Like, let's go. I don't think it would be to the point of when I was a kid that I'm like, shaker. I couldn't perform. It would be more of, like you said, the excitement of. Yes. And then I harvested. And then it's like the excitement of coming down that deer stand, whether you're a climber or climbing down the ladder and walking up to the deer. That's definitely the most exciting part to it. I would say the inhumane part that when I was a kid and I have a crazy deer story, right? And I had to choke a deer out behind a tree just to get it to go away. But, like, I'll have to explain this to you, but, like, triangle. [00:44:57] Speaker D: Triangle. [00:44:57] Speaker C: It was a seat belt around a tree with a stick twisted like, it was. It was rough. [00:45:01] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. [00:45:03] Speaker C: I come from A country family. We all hunted. All the grandkids hunt for Christmas. They all got rifles and shotguns and stuff like that. But my dad was always a proponent of, if you took a deer and you. And you wounded it, we're not going to shoot it again because we're going to tear up the meat, right? And we would need to harvest the meat for the family. So we would go the fastest route. [00:45:22] Speaker D: You could handle it. [00:45:24] Speaker C: We would go the fastest route possible to make it the most humane and less sufferable. But it's still hard. That became more challenging than taking a gun, pulling the trigger at 3,000ft a second, and it's done right. But in my experience, shooting deer and wounded deer, I've shot deer again after already critically injuring the deer, but it didn't kill it right. So having to shoot it again and then watch it suffer, that was the part that. That was hard. When I was younger, it might not have mattered so much. It was like, oh, yeah, I got that buck, whatever. But then I'm. The older I got, the more I appreciate and say, okay, well, I don't want you to suffer just as much as I wouldn't want somebody else to suffer. If I was in a life or death situation and I had to take another life and I, again, I pray I never have to. I don't want you to suffer. Like, I don't want to wound you and then you go to the hospital and die later. No, I'm going to make sure you don't get up. But it's not for the purpose that I'm. I want to. It's for the fact that, like Tip said, like we're saying, like, we don't train to take a life. We train to protect ourselves and to protect our families. And if you, if you cross that line, that at that threshold has to be broken. I don't want it to be. I don't want you to suffer just like I don't want an animal to suffer. So I appreciate that. Now, having to wring a neck of a duck, of a dove, you know, like that, that sucks. You know, like, you hope you get a clean shot, clean kill and it's done and you can be grateful for it. So I would definitely agree. There's some. There's so many ways that it can potentially help you or desensitize you or prepare you. But again, I don't think anybody's ever prepared for that situation. And if you're a hunter or not a hunter, if you're an armed citizen and you choose to exercise that right. I think you cognitively already wrote that book, wrote it in that like I will do what needs to do for my family. That's why I'm exercising this right to carry. That's just my thoughts, my take on it. [00:47:06] Speaker D: I do think raising, being like where you raise does make a difference as well. I mean, there's folks that, I mean there's always jokes from folks that live in the country versus folks that live in the city. People in the city are hundreds of miles away from their food, whereas I shot mine, you know, or I raised it and then, you know, had it butchered or whatever. I think that also puts some difference in it as well. There is, I don't want to call it less humane things, but when you've distanced yourselves from the more basic needs where you. I mean, the folks that I know, I know some folks that were raised in cities that never stepped foot in the woods. Not because they didn't want to, they just didn't have the opportunity. And they think hunting is this, you know, basic, very, you know, feral type of thing. It's like, well, I understand that you've never had to do it. It's never been an opportunity given to you. Just like no one's ever given me a race car. Right. It's not something I've ever done before, nor would I know how to do it if someone presented it to me. So it's foreign and it's different. Then you add the, the self defense aspect. But those people may be more prepared for a self defense scenario because they've been in the city and there's a chance they've seen someone mugged and they've seen those things. So it's just a different, different perspective and a different approach depending on who you are. Again, I'm not going to say everyone in the city's never hunted, nor am I going to say everyone in the country is hunted, because that's not absolutely not the case. But I do think that adds to all of this aspect. It's not, it's not so cut and dried that one thing is going to help you or one thing is not going to help you. Just depends on your upbringing too. [00:48:53] Speaker C: I think. Hunting, though, before you get to that point of being in the deer sand or in the duck blind or anything like that, you do a firearm safety education course. You do a hunter safety education course. So it teaches you. And some of these could probably be updated. [00:49:08] Speaker D: Absolutely. [00:49:09] Speaker C: But it helps teach you the base fundamentals of safety and firearm safety and Operation which can always apply in a self defense situation. Granted, they should probably update them, right? [00:49:19] Speaker A: But [00:49:22] Speaker D: yeah, [00:49:26] Speaker B: so I pulled up just a couple examples here and you guys maybe already know some of these, but there are, there are a number of examples of people who have gone on to be snipers and stuff like that. Their background comes from. This is kind of what Nate was talking about. One is Carlos Hathcock. He was a USMC in Vietnam War. One of the most famous snipers in US history. He's credited with 90 plus confirmed kills. Actual numbers likely higher. His background is he grew up hunting in rural Arkansas from a young age. So he's somebody who grew up. He says that hunting taught him patience and stalking and field craft, which are all things that we kind of talked about too. Being willing to be uncomfortable for your long period of time. Like Nate said, I know I've sat out in some awful weather, both hot and cold and, and rain and stuff like that. So if you, you know, again, I just want to be like a sniper. A military sniper is very different than, than those of us who, who carry. This is just a different mindset and skill set and everything but. And then same Chris Kyle. Everybody knows that name. He grew up very similar. Yeah, there's a few more here. Yeah, you know, you know, there is a, a recurring theme of that. You know, some of the best snipers came from a hunting background because a lot of those skills learn. [00:51:03] Speaker C: Nate, did you hunt as a kid too, growing up? [00:51:05] Speaker D: Oh yeah. [00:51:05] Speaker C: So your entire life you're hunted? [00:51:07] Speaker D: Yeah, I mean, I've been hunting well since I was a young teenager. 10, 11, I think was the first time I went out. [00:51:13] Speaker C: So this is where I would say hunting helped me when I went into the military is I already had such an acclimation to so many different firearms that picking up a rifle and keeping the muzzle pointed downrange against safety and the fundamentals was nothing. And they're like some people that had never seen an M4 or M16. I'm looking at it like, well, I've been playing Call of Duty with these, you know, like. But I'd already been shooting rifle platforms that it was nothing to just transition over and be like, okay, this is how you load it. Well, I have bolt guns that I still have a magazine fed, you know so well. [00:51:39] Speaker D: And there's the comfort. A loaded firearm in this case, it's long, it's big and all the other stuff. But there is a, I do think there is a aspect of being out with a loaded gun in the hunting scenario that does make it more comfortable. Well, I'm the difference between me carrying that rifle and a pistol is simply the length. [00:52:01] Speaker C: Yep. [00:52:02] Speaker D: I do think there's a lot to that because I am very comfortable around anything and I'm comfortable carrying it anywhere because I've done that. I know my capability, I know that I'm doing it safely or not. Generally I would hope it's always safe. But you know, I know how I'm carrying it. I'm also carrying them loaded. Right. Like all of that absolutely helped to translate to oh, I'm going from hunting out in the woods to now I'm just, you know, going, I don't know, downtown to a large crowd and I just want to be comfortable carrying a gun. That absolutely applies from that perspective. [00:52:37] Speaker B: It'd be interesting tip to take you hunting, you know, since you're a grown old man now. It'd be interesting to take you and see what your experience is and see your before and after. Because the three of us started pretty young hunting. So I don't really have a very memorable before to and after. So yeah, it'd be interesting to see how you feel after pointing a gun at a living thing and pulling the trigger. Yeah, I would love to go. [00:53:06] Speaker A: I have no good reason. I haven't. Like I said, it'd be very interesting to see how, how I feel compared to some of the. And I know it's different but a lot of the Force on Force and Sims and there was one real quick, there was one Force on Force training we did in Connecticut. There was this, I forgot the name of it. There was this giant, it looked like a mirror that you could shoot into and there was a ballistic wall in between you and somebody on the other side of the wall was acting out a scene and, and you were coming home responding to the scene. And we spent the whole day working out different scenarios and there was cameras so we could watch everyone do it. And it was amazing to see how people progressed in their self defense mindset as the day went on. A lot of people froze. Like someone came out around a corner with a gun and shot at them. It looked very realistic and a lot of people just froze. And as the day went on they became more comfortable and could, you know, respond to that threat. So when you guys said earlier about the more you've been hunting and the more you can control your adrenaline, kind of similar situation. [00:54:12] Speaker C: So. [00:54:12] Speaker D: Yeah, well. And I think the, the one thing that I'll say about force and force, I don't think it's not valuable. So I hope no one hears that. I think there's huge value in the training of it. You, you're getting some as close to real world reps as you're going to get without actually getting shot at. But the stuff that I've done, I've now I've not done the training you're talking about Tib that it actually sounds much more realistic, much more realistic. But like the normal Force on Force I've done with, you know, Sims or Airsoft or even, honestly even Paintball, which I know is a level below all that stuff, but any of those kind of things, it's still a game. Yeah, to a certain amount. Like I've never, for me personally, I've never experienced an adrenaline dump per se from it. It's just like a cool, we're doing this. This is the plan. Let's execute on it. Not to say that you always do anything just like when you're shooting at a USPSA match, you're not always going to execute on your plan. But the one thing about those that I've not experienced is an adrenaline dump where I'm like, I'm hyped up, I'm excited again. Whether it's happy excited or just I'm keyed up for the situation that I don't, I've never really gotten from Force on Force. Your scenario, this, this thing that you said you did in Connecticut sounds much more close to that than most of the, you know, Force and Force stuff that I've done in the past. So that one would be pretty valuable I would think. [00:55:35] Speaker B: But I've definitely, I've definitely felt it before. So First Force on Force I did was with our friend Andrew. I believe there's a local church that let him do, do the Force for force training. We were using blue guns, using Sims. If you ever been shot by one of those, it's. I have scars. Like it really sucks. I realize it's not the same as getting shot by a real gun. However, it hurts bad enough that you [00:56:00] Speaker C: do remember it can stop you. [00:56:03] Speaker B: You do not want to get shot with it. So I got shot in the face. So I've. Yeah. So the first time we did it we're at this church and, and there is, I think there's a short kind of debrief of kind of what we're be doing that day or whatever. And then we went like, we went right into it and basically I think it was like I was downstairs like in the foyer and I think we were just those of us are in the class, are kind of chatting, and we hear gunshots from the other side of the church. And it was my turn. And so, you know, so I tell everybody, you know, stay here, call 91 1. I'm going, right? So that was. That was a scenario that we were put into. And so I remember again hearing my heartbeat in my ears as I'm. As I'm kind of clearing. I cleared a couple rooms, a stairwell, and I go up into a hallway, and I hear yelling. And it was realistic enough, like, I smelled gunpowder. I hear yelling. I really don't want to get shot because I'm assuming that. That the person, you know, has a gun. Right? And so actually, I was just telling you this story about this the other day, and I kind of peek into a room, and I see a guy with the gun. He's, like, at a. It was like a classroom, and there's somebody at a desk. I can't really see the person on the desk. I see a person, like, yelling. I can see that they had a gun in their hand. And so I crest into the room. And this room is maybe, I don't know, 20, 30, maybe 20, 25 yards long or something like that. It was. It was a long room. And I come into the room as soon as I clear in the room. I don't know if I kicked something or what. I don't remember this, but I remember the guy turning around, and I don't remember anything after this. I remember the guy turning around. I remember raising my gun, and I kind of zippered the guy up the chest, and he went down. I don't remember seeing my sights. I don't remember. [00:57:57] Speaker A: You have point shooting probably. [00:57:59] Speaker B: Probably. Well, I think we watched a video afterwards, and it looked like I. He was far enough, like, for me to point. Shoot that accurately at that distance. I like to say that I'm that good. I got to think that I use my. I use the sites. [00:58:12] Speaker D: I don't know. [00:58:13] Speaker B: But my adrenaline dump after that was wild. And. And we actually went back afterwards and. And we would kind of talk about it as a group. And I remember doing this for other people, too, because he would have, like, he had some of the. Some of the class in the classroom as spectators stuff, right? So there's. There's people watching through the whole thing. And after each of each person went through, we would stop and we'd talk. And it was almost never did the shooter remember everything that everybody else did. You just react to it, and you kind of go into this weird Autopilot zone. Now, I will say, and we did a couple more things through that day, but each time we did it, it became more of a game. But that first time, I'll never forget that first time because it seems so real. And I was afraid that I was gonna get shot, and maybe it was. I was afraid I was gonna lose. But each time we did it, and I've done more force and force sense, and I definitely go into it with more of this clear mind of what's actually happening. Right. I've been shot by them since. And so I'm more familiar with that's like. And everything like that. [00:59:26] Speaker C: So I think Nate made a good point. And I didn't think about it until you said it was paintball. Like, paintball would be the closest thing. And it's a paintball. [00:59:34] Speaker A: Right. [00:59:34] Speaker C: When you're shooting compressed air and little paints, but when you freeze them, they hurt a little bit more. [00:59:38] Speaker B: Oh, they suck. [00:59:39] Speaker C: Yeah. I think paintball would be one of those that could help desensitize you to. Again, I don't condone this. I'm not saying take a human life, but you're actually shooting a human. An aerosol. You're shooting you're rifle set up just as much as your real rifle in life, but it's now an airsoft gun. I think those definitely drive excitement. Maybe it could be a little bit of adrenaline. Not the same type of adrenaline. Adrenaline or a fight or flight moment or a freeze moment. But even now, there's some studies coming out in the military. Talking about it too, is like, people that are capable of situational awareness, reaction time, fast reaction, and shooting and everything else that play video games, everything else, they help and can desensitize you to it. [01:00:20] Speaker B: Right. [01:00:20] Speaker C: When I play Call of Duty and I'm shooting everybody and like, it can absolutely desensitize you over time. Anything you do repeatedly can become something that's like, oh, it's a game. I'm playing it. I will say the force on force, it changes per person and where they are in the scenario. But we had the. I had the honor of working with a police department in their agency. We did force on force with them. And one of the situations was I was sitting in the room, I had a gun on the floor. I was sitting in a chair like this, but the gun was on the floor. He came around, could see the gun, saw me, gave me a verbal command, and I moved to him and he shot me point blank, shot me in the neck. He came back to me the next Day, he's like, I didn't sleep at all that night. He's like, I will never do that again in my life. And I said, well, hey, if that's. That's what it took for you to feel that. And maybe it wasn't adrenaline. Maybe it was just like, I could have as a law enforcement officer, taken a life, ended my career, you know, everything. I think it weighed so much on him that he'll never do that again in a situation he'll, you know, butt stock me, hit me in the head or something like that. But I think that's where there's some things that can definitely correlate to it. But paintball kind of stood out to me. I was like, yeah, man. Like, even playing airsoft, like, I'm. I'm using a aim point, similar optic and aiming straight at you and, you know, stacking two on you. [01:01:26] Speaker D: Well, and it's possible because I've been doing that kind of thing for a long time. I mean, I was playing paintball and airsoft before I even got out of high school. And then I was doing it with the army, doing nothing crazy again, nothing like insane or anything, but I was doing stuff like that with the army. So it may just be that I have gotten to the point where that doesn't do anything for me. So maybe it's your first time go and you would still have it. [01:01:55] Speaker B: I don't know. Well, I think it goes back to the first time a deer came in, right. [01:01:59] Speaker C: I was shaking. [01:02:00] Speaker B: First time I did force on the forest, I was shaking, like. But as you do those things. [01:02:03] Speaker D: So I guess I may have forgotten ever having that beat, those nerves and that excitement, because again, it has become a little bit more of a game for me from that perspective. [01:02:13] Speaker C: But there's. [01:02:15] Speaker D: Again, I don't. I don't want anyone to hear it, regardless of how you feel about or what the reaction your body's reaction to doesn't mean it's not valuable even if you don't have those reactions. It's not that I'm. You shouldn't do those. In fact, you should absolutely do them. But. [01:02:30] Speaker C: Yeah, but it's training, too. [01:02:32] Speaker D: Training is training. [01:02:33] Speaker C: I train to the beep, and I'm not stressed on the beep anymore. I know that's permission to react. So, like, I think like you said, over time, when you envelop your entire life on hunting, on the military, and then working in the firearm industry and consistently being at training, shooting courses, doing force on force, being around guns, it becomes. Not that we're not safe around them. But we're. Oh, yeah, we're running the stage. It's like, you know, the targets aren't shooting back. You know, that's the feedback we always get. But it's training. Like, we're. We are training for something more. If ever called upon these days. [01:03:04] Speaker B: I do want to hunt something that could hunt you. I want to hunt a bear. Polar bear. [01:03:10] Speaker C: Polar bears worse than a bear. [01:03:12] Speaker D: Listen, I've been in the woods with a bear. [01:03:14] Speaker B: A brown or black bear. [01:03:16] Speaker D: Black bear. [01:03:17] Speaker B: They're puppy dogs. [01:03:18] Speaker D: Yeah. Right up until they're trying to deer. Yeah. [01:03:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:03:21] Speaker D: So I've been in the woods when there's a deer that's trying to eat deer car. Or when you're with a dead deer and they're trying to eat deer carcasses around. That'll get your adrenaline going for sure. Yeah. [01:03:31] Speaker C: Yeah. So now that I did in Florida, I was running in the woods in the Cala National Forest, and I came across a mama bear. And like, for me, to Nate. Mama bear. Yeah, yeah. [01:03:39] Speaker D: No, run away. [01:03:40] Speaker C: So I walked backwards. But my. My. My text to my family afterwards because I was. [01:03:44] Speaker D: I love you guys. I miss you. [01:03:46] Speaker C: I had no service, but I'm miles, like, at least a mile from the next human. Right. [01:03:52] Speaker D: And. [01:03:52] Speaker C: But when I got service, I texted my parents. I was like. I ran like Hussein Bolt. Like, I backed up, she started to follow me, and I just kept kind of getting that gap when I got over hill. I'm not. I'm not. I'm fast, but I'm not that fast. But I ran like lightning. Like it. There's. [01:04:05] Speaker D: Usain Bolt may be the only one that could outrun a bear. Bears can get up to 40 miles an hour, so. Yeah. In straight line. [01:04:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:04:13] Speaker D: You're not running from. [01:04:14] Speaker B: So you're supposed to run in zigzags, right? [01:04:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:04:15] Speaker D: That doesn't help you either. This slows you down. [01:04:17] Speaker A: You're supposed to trip your friend and run fast. [01:04:22] Speaker B: Speaking of which, knowing how to. Being willing and being trained to shoot your friend in the leg so you can survive. Absolutely. That's where this all comes in. You've gone full circle. Hunting, shooting your friend in a. In a scenario where there's not sure if that's. No, that's definitely not. [01:04:39] Speaker A: No. But better than dying. [01:04:41] Speaker C: It's a good story later on. [01:04:44] Speaker B: So. [01:04:44] Speaker A: Depends how much you like your friend. [01:04:46] Speaker B: I do think guys want to go [01:04:48] Speaker C: out in the woods. [01:04:48] Speaker D: Not with you. [01:04:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Not anymore. It's kind of. What you brought up something. I do in the times I've done force on force, it's been super interesting to see, and it's not just for myself, but to watch other people make the wrong decisions. And that's one of the things that I Look kind of when you're doing the debrief afterwards is you're like, I'm so glad that I did this. And I. And I did. And I'm glad I can learn from doing the wrong thing. Doing this. [01:05:14] Speaker D: Yeah. You know, doing mistake here, where it's [01:05:16] Speaker B: a practice and not real life, where it's gonna. Where it's gonna cost you your life. [01:05:22] Speaker D: I mean, honestly, it's the same thing as going out and zeroing your hunting rifle or practicing with your. Your bow on something. Just making sure that you can actually accurately place a shot on a target. Yeah, it's a piece of paper. It's not a deer or a foam block for, for you guys that are shooting arrows, but it's just making sure you can actually do the thing. [01:05:42] Speaker B: Actually, that made me think of the first time I ever drew a gun on one of those rubber dummy targets that actually has a form of a human being. The first time I did, I think, whoever. I can't remember where I was at, but they had like a shirt on it and like a hat, and it looked like it looked like a human being. The first time I ever drew my gun on a rubber dummy, there was a split second hesitation of hesitation or just like I had to remind myself, that's not real. This is not real. And then I lit it up. And then you watch a little red packet explode and everything like that. But, but, but yes. I remember the very first time I did that. I'm like, that looks like a human being and feeling a little. Yeah, just feeling a little something. [01:06:22] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:06:24] Speaker B: Well, interesting. I thought that'd be interesting topic. If you're. Listen. If you're listening and you have input on this, we'd love to hear your thoughts on this. You can hit it in the comments. If you're watching this, listen on something else with comments or you can send us an email. Life Liberty equipped1pmail.com All right, let's kind of wrap this up with a quick Faith and fuel. Dave is not ready for us. [01:06:51] Speaker A: Faith anchors us. [01:06:52] Speaker B: Fuel drives us. [01:06:53] Speaker A: Let's open God's word and find the wisdom we need to live it out every day. [01:07:01] Speaker B: So this verse is from. It's from one of our scripture of the day things. I don't know if you guys are still doing those. This is one of my favorite verses. So I was like, this works. I'm just gonna throw it in here. [01:07:11] Speaker C: Yes, we are good. [01:07:12] Speaker B: Romans 12:2. Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to rest and approve what. And approve what? God's will is his good, pleasing and perfect will. I don't know if we've done this verse before. I meant to look because I feel like this is one of my favorite verses. Enough that we may have done this before. If so, we're going to talk about it again. Yeah, some of my favorite verses. What's your guys thoughts on this? [01:07:41] Speaker C: I feel like we have. [01:07:42] Speaker B: We might have, but it's good to do. Again, it's a good reminder. Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. So you know, we can. We can so easily fall into. Into the patterns of this world of being, of being focused on success, on focusing on money and. And lust. [01:08:10] Speaker A: Pride. [01:08:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Just like there's so many things in this world that, that we can find temporary contentment and, and purpose in and everything. But it says, do not conform to that. Be transformed by the renewal your mind. So how do we do that? How do we transform and renew our mind? [01:08:34] Speaker C: I mean, it's his will. That's kind of one that stands out to me. So conform to the pattern of the world. There's greed, lust, luteny. There's so many things in the world. Evil, there's corruption. Everything that we see is almost desensitizing us to the corruption in the world. It's just like, oh, it doesn't affect me right now until it does later on. But what we absorb reflects outward and. Hang around Joey, enough. I say cuss words more. No, just teasing. But it's true though. What we absorb, we put back out. And there was a time in my life that I was just trying to. And still I'm not perfect, guys. And just like any other human out there, but where I was not necessarily defying God, but I was doing what I wanted to my will. And when I did that, it didn't work. Like I'd hit that crossroad or something would come up and you know, God's will, you put it in his hands. Like I just put it in his hands this year. I came into it with. With a lot on the plate, a lot on my hands and. And I was like, hey, it's in your hands now. And you know, for a while I was like, well, I'm stressed about money and everything else. And then I was like, you know what? It's in your hands. You've always taken care of me and it'll flow and it has and it. Maybe it's not that, that way for everyone. Maybe, you know, when they put things in God's hand, they expect something in return instead of allowing it to come into fruition and with his timing. But yeah, I think that's, that's kind of. You bring, give rest to God. Let, let his will be done and his will will transform you and it'll transform your mind, like, even if it's the slightest thing, like I said, I, I struggle. I'm, I'm a sinner like anyone else out there. But there's those days that are harder than others. And, you know, whether it be picking up our daily scripture reading or finding a verse or something that comes across. And as of lately, I love hard, heavy rock, screamo music and I've been finding more Christian bands that are screamo music. So if I want to scream a cuss word and Jesus in the same sentence, like, I think it's acceptable, you know, like, they're not cussing that much. But I think it does help. What you take in, what you absorb is what you can also put out. And, and it's not what I'm doing for me, it's what he wants me to do for others. Because if I can take it, I can also give back to others. That's kind of where I take it, and maybe that's a little bit different. [01:10:52] Speaker B: Nadertip well, I think one of the [01:10:57] Speaker A: many things that I've learned from you, Greg, is if we say we're going to trust in God 100%, similar to what Michael said, do we really trust in God 100%? So when we're going through low points in life and we're struggling with things, how do we get through those? Are we gonna stress about them or complain about them or let them affect us in a negative way? Or are we just going to pray about it, give it to him and move on and do what we can to make the situation better? And as if I, as I have had struggles this year, especially when I lost my dad, that was one thing, like really relying on that lesson that you've taught me and giving it to God and trusting that he knows better than we do, because he does know better than we do. [01:11:46] Speaker D: So, yeah, I mean, I think part of the answer to the question that you originally posed is in the second portion of the Verse. So how do we renew our mind? Michael said it, Nadal talks about it. You know, the second part says then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is. Well, how do we know what God's will is? We got to read his scripture. Well, how do you renew your mind in prayer and scripture? So it's one for the other. You can't test and understand what scripture says until you read the thing. And reading and praying about it is going to help change your mind, renew your mind. So I actually think the answer is there, [01:12:31] Speaker B: I think how much. So verse one I think is also. I'll just read that real quick. It says, I appeal to you therefore brothers, by the mercies of God to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. So even before this he's talking about how we need to, we need to give our lives over present our bodies as a living sacrifice. If you sacrifice your body, you are no more. That is dead and gone. So in this, even before beginning to transform and renew, you got to die. That part of you has to die, has to be sacrificed and handed over to God so that he can transform and renew your mind. Yeah, exactly. I was going to get to. Yeah, is through spending time in his word and in prayer and when you think about like you are bombarded by the world, by the pattern of this world, how many hours a day, I mean especially because of social media, like we are just, we're getting bombarded with the world non stop. So how much time are we spending in scripture and in prayer and, and with other believers and, and and having these discussions. I love having these discussions with you guys too. Just like you know, in these moments we get to you know, share and to learn and to grow as well. And yeah, it's just trying to making sure that we're spending that time every day being transformed and renewed and kind of every day having to say God, I'm yours, I give it to you, this life as a sacrifice, this is yours. And do as what you please and follow him in word and prayer. We just have to do because otherwise the world's going to words going to pull us in. Very good. Thanks guys. I appreciate that. Well, is it ready to wrap us? [01:14:52] Speaker D: Let's do it. Thanks for tuning in to Life, Liberty and equipped. If today's conversation challenged you, encouraged you, or helped you get more equipped to pursue your mission, share it with a friend, drop a comment and leave us a review. [01:15:09] Speaker B: Don't forget to hit that subscribe button and leave a review. What takes a few seconds to help turns into more opportunities to reach new people. [01:15:16] Speaker C: And if you're not already part of the NeoMag's Insiders club, now's the time. Get early access to NeoMag gear, exclusive content and front row seats to everything we're building. Go to theneomag.com to sign up. [01:15:29] Speaker B: Until next time. [01:15:30] Speaker A: Time Live boldly stand for liberty and stay equipped. See you soon. [01:15:35] Speaker D: Bye. [01:15:44] Speaker B: You like that? Put a little applause in there. [01:15:46] Speaker C: Press the record button. [01:15:47] Speaker B: Did you hear that? There's nice.